Gerry Beckley

America’s Gerry Beckley on Brian’s Legacy, Friendship, and Working with Dennis & Carl

Gerry, do you remember when you discovered the Beach Boys?

The first album I ever bought was Surfin’ Safari (the Beach Boys 1962 debut album). I was raised on music in my house. My mother was just a fanatic appreciator of music and really had wonderful taste of the great classical catalog of the Russians and the romantic era of Rachmaninoff, Tchaikovsky and Prokofiev, that that kind of period, which is lovely because tons of melody and all that stuff. She also loved show tunes, but she had very high bar. It was Rodgers and Hammerstein, Rodgers and Hart – really the cream of that kind of stuff. So I was raised on listening to those records. And so there were records throughout the house all the time, but my first purchase was Surfin’ Safari.

So I’m guessing the harmonies early on must have influenced you, considering you co-founded America, known for their close harmonies.

You know, the very first kind of contemporary music I was listening to was probably the Kingston Trio, which is harmony as well. And then the kind of one-two punch, as I'm sure you've heard a million times of the Beach Boys followed closely by the Beatles. Both bands were intensely involved in harmonies. There were multiple singers in both bands. It obviously wasn't until many years later that that I started to define, you know, “oh, that's Al singing on that one.” You know, Mike has such a distinctive voice. You could usually pick him out, and Brian was, of course, up top. But I studied harmony by listening to those records, to answer your question. And that, of course, rubbed off. I mean, obviously, America was founded on three-part vocal harmony. It had a huge influence on us.

So you're a fan of the early records. Then Pet Sounds comes out, which is such a departure and a lot of people don’t know how to react to it. Did you appreciate it right away, or did it take a while for it to sink in?

Yes. I did appreciate it right away. I just thought it was beautiful, and things morphed as Brian started to work more and more with these guys (the Wrecking Crew). These orchestrations were no longer two or three guitars, bass and drums, Mike on sax, or or a little bit of organ in the background. These were very complex arrangements, and they started to sound to my untrained ear almost retro, you know, kind of going back to orchestration from the crooners and things where you had strings and oboes and things.

And, of course, nothing was off limits for Brian at that time, and he had all of the finest players at his disposal. So it was interesting to watch. I can't tell you that I absolutely understood every instrument. I remember listening to Prokofiev and Peter and the Wolf because they assigned a different instrument to each animal in it. So I kinda knew the difference between bassoon and clarinet and all that stuff. But all of that stuff was showing up in Pet Sounds, even beyond what you were hearing on Beatles records, which were other than the Beach Boys, obviously the most creative, the leading edge of of pop music at the time.

Right, and in those days, bands were competing with each other in raising the bar.

You can't overstate that. You might know we (America) did many albums with George Martin. We did seven consecutive albums with him. And George and the Beatles were huge Beach Boys fans. George openly said to us, because I remember one time we were having dinner, and we were all talking about who were our major influences. And it got around to George who had instigated the discussion, and I wasn't sure what he was gonna say because he's classically trained, you know? He was gonna say Bach or something. And he said Brian. This is the stuff of legend, you know, because they were both listening to each other. And Brian famously said, you know, I think with Rubber Soul, “how am I gonna beat that? “

Can you explain to non-musicians what makes Brian's music so special.

Well, first of all, he had an incredibly rich understanding of harmonies. If you're a fan of Gershwin and you bust that apart, that stuff is very deep and there is incredibly complex orchestration in those things. But then if you put a layer of the Four Freshmen over it, there's four-part harmony. There are times when all four of them are singing in unison, you know, and they break apart. It's almost like those beautiful Russian aerial displays. The jets are flying, and then they go like this. And then so he had a real understanding of all of that.

But what you're referring to is that he he had a talent of moving these ingredients around and placing them in not what you might consider the obvious position. Obviously, bass lines were very often on the lower fifth of a chord or on the major third of a chord. If you’re playing a C, the bass doesn't have to be on C. You can move it around. Now that's an oversimplification, but I'd like to think that the thing about popular music is that it appeals to people. It sounds lovely. It engages you. Obviously, if things are too far outside of the box, really dissonant or something, you don't grab the listener's ear quite as easily, you know? And there was that kind of stuff was being made to experimental music. But if it didn't sound right – I don't like to say sound sweet – because there's so many lovely darker moments in Brian's work. But if it doesn't appeal to the listener's ear, it doesn't pull you in.

When did you first meet Brian?

I first met Brian in March of ‘72. We were wrapping up our very first club tour of the US. after we started in England. I knew all the other guys because they had been touring in the UK as well. They were always very big in England. They came over to promote Carl and the Passions, and Brother Records was now under the umbrella of Warner Brothers, and that's who we were signed with.

Derek Taylor had a major office at Warner Brothers UK, so we were now connected. Derek had been the Beach Boys press officer. So he immediately connected us. The band at that time included Ricky and Blondie. And, I mean, it was an interesting era for the Beach Boys.

I particularly connected with Carl. I think Carl saw something in me, because Carl was famously, like, fifteen years-old or so when they got started. And then our first album was blowing up. So I think he kinda took me under his wing, and we went and followed that whole tour. My point here is that we got to know them all except Brian because Brian wasn’t with them.

When we came to California, we did a week at the Whiskey a Go Go. And by that time, “A Horse With No Name” was about to go to Number 1. And that was followed by our album – they both ended up at Number 1. And Brian came to see us at least one night with Danny Hutton. And Danny later went on to be a dear friend of mine too. And so after the show, the dressing room froze, you know? Here I am with Brian, who had been the missing piece of the puzzle since we knew all the other guys. That’s when I first met him.

Everybody has a Brian story – can you tell us one?

I've got a million Brian stories. We toured with the Beach Boys for hundreds of shows. But we toured with Brian when he started going back out on the road. We did a particular tour in Australia in 2010. it was Brian, Chicago, us (America) and Peter Frampton.

And we were, of course, watching the Brian’s set with a beautiful band that he had assembled, and Jeff Foskett was there. I remember a particular night when Brian and Jeff sat right in the wings in two seats that I could easily see throughout the whole show. I'm thinking, this is great. Brian's gonna watch the whole show. And I knew he was a fan of Sister Golden Hair, a song of mine. And that's at the end of the show. So it wouldn't have surprised me to look over and see that Brian bailed, you know? I mean it's a lot to ask to sit through 90 minutes. But he stayed and listened to the whole thing, so I was quite anxious to go backstage now and say, you know, “how was it?” And he looked at me, and he goes, “Gerr, you rushed it.” And it was true. Because we all play a lot faster on stage, but it was just like he was waiting for that song, and he certainly didn't mince his words. He looked at me right, “Gerry, you rushed it.” I know. So, anyway, I was honored that he sat through the whole thing.

There’s a new tradition, “Dinners with Brian.” It’s been nice seeing Brian out with friends lately.

I missed the first dinner a few weeks before, and then Cameron (Crowe) said, you've got to come. We're gonna do it again. I've known Cameron for years and his story is a fascinating history in its own right. Then Brian came in, and I've known Brian through just about every one of his chapters. And when I saw him, I leaned in and said, “Hey Brian, it's Gerry.” And I'm thinking, is he listening to me? And he just turned his head to me said, “Hi Gerry – is Dewey here too?” And, you know, my partner in America is Dewey Bunnell. First of all, it told me that Brian is still on. Right away he connected me with my partner of fifty-some years. I said, “No Brian, Dewey's not in L.A. at the moment.”

But it was a lovely evening. Brian is, you know, one of the truly unique people of our generation – our century. And I really feel that he was kind of enjoying himself. He had good company, and it wasn't like other dinners I’ve had with him where he's he's eating and in 5 or 10 minutes he's gone, you know? He didn’t leave before dessert, so we all stayed, and we had dessert.

Can you tell us about Dennis. You’re credited as singing background vocals on Pacific Ocean Blue and his unreleased Bamboo album.

I think I'm on a few of those things, but I was at that studio a lot during that time. And, yes, I was close with Dennis. I was there for a lot of that. We'd be singing on “River Song.” There’s a story that I sang on the Beach Boys album, Holland. So I only throw that into the mix because, you know, they were hectic times. Anyway, Dennis would be be doing a session here and a session there. I can't really tell you other than I remember being there a lot at that beautiful studio in Santa Monica.

And Dennis was in his prime. He was just writing like crazy. If you know the story of that album, once that album was done, he really didn't stop. He just kinda carried on writing more. And I remember we were doing shows together, and Dennis had his own kind of Winnebago. He kinda made his own way from gig to gig. And I remember sitting in his Winnebago. He had a Wurlitzer electric piano in there, and he was playing me some new stuff. And as you know, if you're familiar with Dennis's work, he was always kind of the renegade guy. Beautiful melodic sense. And a lot of these things, you know, “Only with You” and “Forever” are just beautiful ballads. They're right up there near some of my favorites of all time.

The sessions with Dennis were hectic, but he was really quite in control. Then they did the Beach Boys 15 Big Ones there. I kinda remember being there for a lot of that too.

You were kind of witnessing history and not being aware of it at the time, right?

Yeah. Essentially, when you're living that, you're not really thinking that this is gonna be history. I gotta remember everything and, you know, it's just it's funny how life is. I can tell you that I mean, I don't wanna say that I was indifferent to this is gonna be history, but I was well aware of how important it was. The guys were all back together. This was one of the “Brian's Back” chapters. But I was aware of what was going on. I did a lot of sessions, so I knew the difference. And if there's something special about it, and as you know, I was very close with Carl and ended up doing an album with Carl and Robert Lamb. So I've got a lot of history and a lot of lovely memories of all of those things.

That leads me to my next question, which is the Like A Brother album you did with Robert Lamm (of Chicago) and Carl. What was that like?

It was a beautiful project. Unfortunately, the tragic finale of that whole thing … I try to make a point of telling everybody or anybody that is familiar with the project that the entire album was done in the greatest of vibes and love. Absolutely no dark moments or anything.

Our challenge was time. We we had sung together on a solo album of Robert’s. Robert had cut a song of mine called “Watching the Time Go By,” and Carl and I came in to sing. We had such a great time. We said, “oh, we should do more of this. We should do an album.” Not thinking that if you overlap – Chicago and Beach Boys did a million shows together. If you overlap their two schedules, very little daylight remains. But if you threw an American touring schedule on top of those other two, there was absolutely no time. So the challenge was to find times when the three of us were actually free together because, it ended up taking us six years, I think, to put that together.

And sometimes it would be Robert and I in New York, and Carl wasn't there, but Carl was coming in a day later. We had to get very creative with the schedule. And we were virtually done when Carl was diagnosed. So everything was put on hold for obvious reasons. And Carl was gone within the year. And so it was just the most tragic of times. And we just put it on the shelf. And it wasn't until, I think, maybe a year or so later that Gina, Carl's widow, was saying, “you know, he would really love for that to be heard. I know he was very fond of that.” So we dug it out, and we realized we were just about done. It needed mastering and a couple of mixes. And so a lovely project, and I was honored. You know, two of my heroes.

Can we talk about your new album, Gerry Beckley. it was released in June and it’s beautiful. You’ve been prolific as a solo artist.

Yeah, I've done I've done quite a few of these, and I'm on a boutique label called Blue Élan. They have been so kind and allowed me to continue to do these. I was always a pretty prolific guy, and I would I would lecture at Loyola to music students. And I was explaining that I always came from the kind of “you gotta write ten to get two.” What I meant by that is that, you know, just always keep writing. Scribble down your ideas, don't let anything go away. And that they're not all gonna be winners. So I figured, you know, if you've got ten things going, you might have a couple of good ones in there. But it doesn't mean that the other eight are throwaways.

And sometimes they might be great ideas, but they need a bridge. Or you've only got one verse to this one. So once I started doing these solo records, it allowed me to flesh out a lot of these tunes. And I have never had a writer's block. If anything, my challenge was always time. How how much time does it take?

As for America, I've stopped touring. The other guys are still touring and there’s a lovely guy, Andy, who is singing my parts and stuff. But I did fifty three straight years, and I'm 72 now, and I'm healthy. Happy with lovely family. I just really didn't wanna be on a plane every other day in my life anymore – that’s tough. But I have a studio here in in LA, and I have a studio in Sydney (Australia). I Never stopped working. So I'm producing some stuff for Jeff Larson at the moment – he's a dear friend and singer-songwriter, and he’s helped me with a lot of things. And the self-titled Gerry Beckley album is the latest one on Blue Élan, and really proud of it. I think it came out good.

You're a multi instrumentalist, so you probably played most everyhing and would bring in somebody to play a horn or something?

Yeah, I would. I was talking to the guys in Wilco, who are good friends of mine, and I thought, it would be so great if I just sent them sketches and say “can you guys play these tracks?” I am aware of the options. Jason Sheff, who was for years was with Chicago and is a dear friend and one of the world's greatest bass players. And so I will very often say, “Jay, sorry to ask you again. can you play …” I can play it all, and I know how that's gonna sound because I know my brain and stuff, and it sounds good, it sounds like Gerr. I love the option of turning it over to somebody else because it's only by doing that that you go, “oh, I wouldn't have thought of that.” So in this particular album, I I had both Brian Eichenberger, who is out with Mike and Bruce with the Beach Boys. He’s doing, I guess took Foskett did. He's one of the high harmonies, and he’s done a lot of background vocals for me on this record.

And for drums, I often use either Ryland Steen who has toured with me for years or Brian Young who was in the group Fountains of Wayne. I've also been doing my string sessions which are out of Nashville where I'll write it out, basically. I'm just not that familiar with the range where a cello stops and a viola stars, you know, those kind of things. So I’d rather turn that over to the “Pros from Dover,” as I call them.

And so, bass and drums may be done off location, and then you just mix them in?

Yeah, and horns. You know, I wanted to work with Ry Cooder's son – an incredible guy named Joaquin Cooder. He's an unbelievable musician in his own right, a fantastic drummer. And I want to involve him on a particular track. And normally, you can get in touch with him. Everybody has a studio, and you could say, I'll send you the file. And Joaquin didn't. And so all of a sudden, we were booking studios again, “nice to meet you,” old style. But it was really lovely. And I brought my son, Matthew, who is a producer just in case I didn't know where one wire went into another, you know, that kind of thing. But it was first time I'd been in an outside studio other than my own in a few years. It was it was fun.

And you arrange and produce the tracks?

Yeah, I kinda hear it, and then put it down. And the thing about doing a solo record is there’s nobody to blame. It's hard enough to get somebody to sit and listen to 3 minutes of music, let alone 40 minutes. I come from that era of great albums. And I remember listening to side two of Abbey Road or either side of Pet Sounds over and over again because I just loved that immersive, at least 20 minutes, you know, experience. You put the headphones on – was some of my favorite memories. So I built these albums like that. We're doing something online now where we're asking the fans to see, what are their favorite tracks and why. Which is a way of just seeing if people dug deep enough to get into the record itself rather than just, you know …

You hear a track like “Crazy” on the new album, and it sounds like a hit single.

Thank you. I'd like to think – and there’s no way to test this theory. I'd like to think some of these things might have been hits had they surfaced during our era. You know, in the seventies, when “Sister” and “Tin Man” and stuff were top of the charts. I'd like to think they probably would have stood as good follow ups and would have been considered part of the canon. Didn't happen that way, and there's just no way to paint America's arc as anything other than just a wonderful journey. We we had far more than our fair share of hits and multi record and stuff.

You’re a fan of Barry Gibb. Right?

Huge, huge fan.

I am too. I think he or you could probably write a song as good as anything you did in the seventies, but it won’t get airplay or sell the same because the audience – and time – moves on. But as a songwriter, you’ve got to know that it’s still good, right?

I know the structure and I know the rules, and I know the how to break the rules nicely. You know, there's a couple of things that I use as an example, and it's a very rare example. But if you look at Johnny Cash, who had this unbelievable career and near the end was kinda wrapping it up and playing Branson and not a lot of big shows. And all of a sudden, Rick Rubin comes and goes, “hold on a second. I think we got something here.” And it turned into this incredible series of records, The American Trilogy. And, you know, nominated for Album of the Year and stuff. And so I don't wanna pretend that it never happens, but it truly is a is a rarity. On the other hand, the other side of that is there are some lovely newer acts that are doing what I would consider really A-class pop music. I'm I'm hooked on the Lemon Twigs at the moment. I don't know if you've heard them.

Yes. I have.

I get some people listen to it and go, it's it's almost like cosplay. It's almost like they're pretending to be. But to these two brothers from Long Island, and they're so good. And the songs are lovely. Anyway, it's it's given me hope for pop music

Do you know Fleet Foxes?

Yeah. Sure.

They write great songs and their harmonies are just out of this world. I interviewed their leader Robin Pecknold for one of these Brian Wilson interviews and he’s got so much respect for Brian and the great music that preceded him.

I don't know them personally, but wasn’t Father John Misty their drummer for a while or something? Yeah. I'd love to meet those guys. We did an album for Sony quite a few years ago with Adam Schlesinger who, rest in peace, was was the producer. And James Iha with Smashing Pumpkins, and the minute those two guys anointed that we were worthy of their time, they were gonna do it. So fantastic album, one of my favorites. But all of a sudden, Ryan Adams was knocking at the door and Jim James from My Morning Jacket. And are there all these lovely, you know, a generation or two past us onboard, and it was really a lovely experience all the way around. It was great to meet them and to work with them and stuff.

Gerry, thanks again for your time to talk about Brian, as well as Dennis and Carl. And congratulations on your new album, it’s a great piece of work and it deserves a big audience.

Thank you, Michael, it was great talking to you.